Note: I had held off posting this until a confirmation came up, and now The Toronto Sun is carrying it as well. And since I’m leaving for TAM today, this seems especially appropriate.
There is a story out of Canada that is simultaneously unbelievable and yet oh-so believable… and certainly enraging.
A woman has an autistic 11 year old daughter and cannot afford special care for her, so she takes her to a public school. The mother was recently called in to the school due to a horrific claim: her daughter was being abused. This claim was being told to her by the principal, the vice-principal, and the girl’s teacher, mind you, so the mother was rightly very upset.
The problem: this claim was being put forth by the teacher’s assistant… because a psychic told her.
Yes, you read that right. A psychic. This "seer" told the TA the little girl was being abused by a man between the ages of 23 and 26, so the TA told the teacher, and up the chain it went.
If I were the mother, I would have gone very medieval indeed on them at that point. But it gets worse. The school officials reported the incident to Children’s Aid, the government agency overseeing child abuse.
This is incredible. Stupidity almost beyond imagining! Think of the mental turmoil the mother went through (after the difficulty of raising an autistic child), the time wasted, the money… all because a TA went to a "psychic", and the people in charge believed it.
The key part here is (emphasis mine):
…under the Child and Family Services Act, anyone who works with children and has reasonable grounds to suspect a youngster is being harmed, must report it immediately - and the CAS has an obligation to follow up.
Note the word "reasonable". If you made a list of reasonable things in the world, nowhere on it, anywhere, would you find the word "psychic" (unless it was in the form of "psychic powers are not reasonable"). There was some secondary, circumstantial evidence of abuse, but IMO it was not enough to trigger this. The clear primary cause was the word of a "psychic".
The mother also has proof her daughter hasn’t been abused; the girl is equipped with a GPS unit that makes audio recordings as well, and there is no evidence at all of abuse. In some good news, the Children’s Aid Society called the woman and told her this whole situation was "ridiculous".
The mother has correctly pulled the girl from the school (I’d pull mine too if I had a child at that school) and is trying to get the school board to pay for treatment for the girl. That is reasonable: because of all this the mother cannot work and has no income.
There is an irony here. In my opinion, given the statements in the news article and assuming they’re accurate, the TA, teacher, vice-principal, and principal all need to be shown the door. Fired. Period. However, the psychic, no doubt, will be allowed to go on giving advice that will continue to ruin peoples’ lives. Why? Because in most cases the "psychics" are careful, making sure they say that the information they give out is not to be taken as fact, but as entertainment. Many TV bloodsuckers "psychics" do this, so they don’t get sued.
"Psychics" may honestly think they have gifts, but they don’t. Others are simply con artists, and there is no punishment large enough for them. But they’re all wrong.
But the real evil is done by the gullible. If the linked article is correct, those people were put in charge of the care of a little girl, and they screwed that up on a massive scale. I hope they learned something from this.
Hat tip to Fark and BABloggee Anthony Duca.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:16 am
Aw man. I started reading this thinking it said “physics.” I was blind-sided by insanity of what I read.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:21 am
the mother should talk to the school and say *she* has had a psychic vision. in this vision the psychic, the TA, the principle, the vice principal and the school system get sued. sued for slander, mental anguish, recovery of lost wages, support for the childs medical conditions–anything that she can reasonably sue for.
i can’t believe the stupidity of the school system. kudos to the Children’s Aid Society for saying the situation was ridiculous.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Oh man. Normally, I’d make an Ontario joke right about now, but I really don’t think I can. This is just too messed up for words.
This sort of crap is why I made the decision several years ago that I dare not risk being a teacher or a scout leader, no matter how much I think I could bring to the table.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:24 am
jeje, happened the same here! i was expecting more LHC nonsense.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:29 am
This is truly preposterous … but then again, 25% of americans believe beyond any doubt that Jesus Christ will come back within their lifetimes, so no matter how absurd the whole thing is, I cannot say I’m surprised.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Too bad the TA/principal/vice principal isn’t “a man between the ages of 23 and 26″.
Glad to hear that that Children’s Aid Society called it “ridiculous”.
Until a couple of years ago, New York’s laws on the matter were quite Draconian. If a complaint is filed against a parent, and an investigation started, for some sort of abuse/neglect/whatever, you were put on a registry, and kept there until your youngest child reached the age of 28. There was no getting off the list, and there was no “not guilty” outcome. The only possible outcomes were “guilty” and “insufficient evidence to prove guilt”.
This was changed a couple of years ago, but only slightly. Now, there is an “unfounded” outcome possible. Unfortunately, you’re still kept on the list until your youngest child reaches the age of 28 unless you can give “compelling evidence” that nothing happened. (In other words, the burden of proof is on you, not them.)
June 19th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Oh, and I, too, first read “physics”.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Unfortunately, Phil, when the phrase Child Abuse rears it’s ugly head, all “reasonableness” goes out the window. If those words are even whispered, it is practically guaranteed that it will be reported and investigated.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:39 am
What upsets me here is that a government agency actually allowed the word “psychic” to enter into an investigation. I have yet to be convinced that a psychic can give any form of solid, relevant evidence for anything at all.
We’re paying for this @$%#@$??
It psychics truly existed on a truthful level, SO many crimes and other events would have been solved by now.
Being Canadian and all, it doesn’t surprise me that there are teachers/educators out there capable of such stupidity. I have been told before, that being a teacher doesn’t mean being brilliant. No offense to those who are teachers, because I know a few who actually are very clever.
I wonder when we’ll finally shake the bugs out of the system and allow clear thinking to prevail.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:40 am
If I had been that Mother I would have majorly freaked out. If I had child in that school I would have majorly freaked out too. I hope parents start pulling their kids outa there but FAST. The lot of them (from the so called “Psychic” to the principal and every link in the sad sorry chain in between) should be sacked, named and shamed. If they are allowed to behave in this backward way then I say we bring back tarring and feathering, or maybe witch burning (OK OK I got carried away there I know but REALLY people!)
June 19th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Let’s spread the blame a little here. The TA and the psychic are monumentally idiotic, but then so is everyone else (principal, vice-principal, teacher) involved. I agree they should all be shown the door. As far as the psychic goes, perhaps the mother could initiate some kind of civil case against her, for slander or defamation.
Everyone rails against “teh stoopids” in the US, but wassup with our neighbors in the Great White North? You should read about the Canadian Human Rights Council and their shenanigans.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Perhaps the teacher assumed that the assistant was trying to indirectly reveal real abuse? I mean, obviously the assistant is a little loopy, she could have been trying to dance around the subject.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I should have backed that up with an experience I had with a teacher in grade 8… science teacher too.
This science teacher declared that it was impossible for live to have evolved on Mars because it would have taken photosynthesis to make it so. Yet here on Earth, we have lifeforms that thrive in total darkness, in caves and underwater conditions. It was recently discovered that there was bacteria that could survive an autoclave. Not much photosynthesis happening there either.
He was also a french teacher, and I could speak french circles around the guy.. I’m only 1/2 french! Bloody ripoff!
June 19th, 2008 at 8:51 am
It seems that the whole “entertainment” claim would be useful here. Either the psychic can claim “entertainment” value in which case the school administration is at fault for acting without reasonable grounds, or the psychic’s claim wasn’t entertainment in which case the psychic (and most likely the administration as well) can be gone after for defamation. In the first case I think the psychic is also liable.
Sheesh, I just don’t see any way out of this for the school or the psychic. Hopefully they don’t find a way and the mother doesn’t back down.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Not sure what I can say after banging my head against the desk for several minutes…
This is simple another reason why I have no confidence in the public school system. It is as if they have no desire to simply teach needed skills and critical thinking anymore.
Yeah parochial schools are looking more and more like the choice for my kids in the future.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
There’s more than the risk of lawsuits. “Psychics,” fortune tellers, and the like usually claim to be entertainment to skirt bunco laws. The other dodge is to proclaim themselves as “spiritual advisers.”
June 19th, 2008 at 9:05 am
I’m printing this one out. My wife has never understood why I dislike so much of the paranormal crap on TV these days. This is why. Shows like “Medium,” or “Ghost Whiperer,” or “Ghost Hunters” just make monsters like this “Witchfinder General” psychic all the more plausible to those who aren’t thinking very hard to begin with.
Are we in a new dark age of superstition?
June 19th, 2008 at 9:10 am
The police should take the psychic in for questioning as they claimed to have knowledge of a crime. Since they cannot actually have psychic abilities either they know of the crime through some other means, in which case they are involved, or they lied. In which case they would be wasting police time. Either way they need to be brought before a court and face a heavy fine at the very least.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Any readers that know a thing or two about Canadian law to say what legal claims the mother could reasonably pursue?
June 19th, 2008 at 9:12 am
As a teacher in Ontario, I need to speak up here. I get irked when people read about a stupid situation like this and then use it to bang their personal “Teachers and the education system suck” drum.
You can’t paint a broad stroke like that. Some of us fight the good fight!
This situation was utterly ridiculous. Read the article and realize that 2 good things happened here. The Children’s Aid agreed it’s ridiculous, and the mother was astounded that a psychic was given an instant credibility. Good for her! She sounded like the most level headed of all involved. And.. wait for it.. she had evidence to back up her claims!!
There needs to be a serious inquiry into this to prevent similar shams from happening, but it needs to start at the psychics door.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Saw this on PZ’s blog… I was EXTREMELY disgusted. And still am. How in heavens can ANYONE do such an horrible thing to a poor woman like that and how in HELL is the Teacher Assistant (I won’t shorten that though I want to. South park style!) still employed?!
HOW can the principals think this is plausible?! They deserve to have their rear ends handed over to them by the parents!!! Fire them all!!!
June 19th, 2008 at 9:24 am
As a resident of Toronto, I can assure our friends South of the 49th parallel that indeed the Stupids exist here as well. Props to B.A. for posting this.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:27 am
[…] few bloggers have picked up on it. Pharyngula and Bad Astronomy have it stone cold […]
June 19th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Actually, Medium is a well done show, and this is from a hardcore skeptic. I just view it as fantasy, and they have been internally consistent with Allison’s “powers” for the most part.
And it has Patricia Arquette in it.
I actually had more problems with last season’s wacky solar power idea of the husband character than the psychic stuff.
Ah. You have fallen into the common fallacy of thinking the last one ever ended.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:30 am
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but sadly, I’m not!
June 19th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Reminds me of the FC crap several years ago and all the claims of child abuse that the facilitators were relaying through the kids with autism. I would say, though, that this is even worse. The FC debacle at least had the veneer of legitimacy to it (granted, the veneer was made of ultra-thin, wet rice paper…).
June 19th, 2008 at 9:32 am
@Quiet Desperation: Ugh! I can’t stand medium. Every time my mom watches that I cringe. Especially when you know about that real Allison Dubois chick… She’s so full of it.
I do find Ghost Whisperer MILDLY (extremely mildly) entertaining, but it’s way too chick flick for me.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:36 am
>>>”Because in most cases the “psychics” are careful, making sure they say that the information they give out is not to be taken as fact, but as entertainment.”
Surely, that can’t apply in this case, especially considering how far it went.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Oh, man! Right in my own backyard. It is in Barrie, though, and ever since Molson’s Brewery moved things haven’t been the same.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Reminds me of the science of recovered memories we developed in the States a while back - many folks went to jail with that one - no psychic required.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:47 am
First of all, yes, we are in a new dark age of superstition, only this time it’s worse because we know better. We’re no longer groping to figure out the basics of how the world works. We have the scientific method firmly rooted in reality and with that we should be able to dispel all these demons of stupidity. I’m no genius, but it seems obvious to me there are ways to establish whether someone’s been abused, without the aid of a psychic. The TA is at fault, here, not just stupid. Once she got her revelation from “Sylvia B.” and became convinced of its truth, she should have physically checked the child, within the limits of what’s allowed, of course. If she found no evidence of abuse, she should’ve shut the hell up at that point. Only if she’d found mysterious bruising or several unexplained healed wounds that seemed to indicate a pattern of abuse, should she have even thought of pursuing this. Even then, she should not have mentioned anything about a psychic being involved, because the word of a charlatan is not hard evidence. So, yes, we are in a new dark age of superstition. Let’s call it the Woo-Woo age. It features belief in psychics, bigfoot, alien abduction, ghosts, a one-true-god religion where the god is actually three entities with an accompanying fleet of angels, and an entire encyclopedia’s worth of other nonsense beliefs (see skepdic.com - Skeptic’s Dictionary.) What we need to fully realize is that this is a conflict between healthy skepticism and a wanton abandon to superstitious clap-trap. All of us out there who consider ourselves intelligent, rational members of society need to take a cue from Phil Plait and get on the front-lines of this war. We are the ones who have to advocate and fight for clear thinking in the world, maintaining the separation of church and state and fully funding a rigorous science curriculum in our schools. This curriculum should start at the earliest levels, so that the children’s brains can blossom. Only by taking an active role to combat this nonsense can we hope to make change. No one is going to do it for us. For my part, I’m currently writing and illustrating a sci-fi graphic novel series and am seeking publication early next year. The focus of the series is on how the beings on an alien world overcome religious dogmatism to launch a space program. They have great adventures along the way and make many fundamental discoveries about the universe, but I keep everything plausible and try not to violate any laws of physics. No light speed travel here. My point with the story is to show that the realities of uncovering the universe’s secrets through science are infinitely more interesting than pseudoscience and superstition. What’s really out there is enough.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:09 am
“A woman has an autistic 11 year old daughter and *cannot afford* special care for her (..)”
Er. Folks? Someone has an autistic child and cannot AFFORD the care and attention that child needs - that’s much more scandalous than all that psychic business. Much less entertaining, too, I’ll grant you that, but it makes me sick to the bones whenever I read of children who are in need of special care and are denied it… because some legislator decided it would be too costly for society to step in an spend a couple of extra dollars.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Even morons want to be heroes sometimes… maybe it’s not the TA’s fault that he/she is a moron, and it’s certainly not his/her fault that our society has a hero complex. That said, morons that follow moronic paths in the attempt to become heroes should be slapped down and reminded that they are morons and to leave intelligent people alone. No joke.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am
And just out today, a teenager in Oregon dies because his family believed in faith healing.
http://www.katu.com/news/20461264.html
Inflamation of the urethra…a catheter could have saved his life.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I saw this at Pharyngula too, but didn’t realize that it happened in Canada. I’m surprised that it didn’t happen in Alberta, but I suppose that Ontario can have its share of teh stoopid too. I agree with the people who posted that the psychic should have something to answer for in all of this.
There should also be an expose on the news about how cold readings are done. Remember John Edward? So many people believed that he wasn’t full of crap that he got two cable shows. It’s just amazing. I just with that Penn & Teller’s show, the name of which I can’t type here but the season premier is tonight, could be shown on network tv. They did a good send up of psychics.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:26 am
When one claims to be a psychic, they should be treated for delusional behavior.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:26 am
If there were any real psychics out there, then they’d be *incredible* risks to national security. Think about it. They’d know all our government’s tactics and plans in the Global War on Terror ™ and could give those secrets to the terrorists!
I think it’s only prudent then to have anyone who claims to have psychic powers arrested … sorry, detained … immediately, whisked off to a secret government facility somewhere, and tested until it can be positively proven that they’re not really psychic.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Reasonable doubt. Easy to say, a little hard to get specific though. Who determines what is reasonable? Well the individuals involved do. Society does.
Sure, a psychic is in no way a definition of reasonable to you or me, but heck, police departments use them all the time, thereby lending false credibility to their craft.
So why should a school board, administrator or teacher be any different when they hear a report of child abuse?
Because it’s stupid you say!
As much as I agree it is, it isn’t a valid arguement when society in general will accept these charletans words on something as critical as an unsolved murder or missing persons case.
No, the school administrators should not be fired. They did their job as society has defined (or at least accepted) it. They should perhaps be spoken to by someone from the justice system to be a bit more critical should something like this occur again, but not fired for it.
The TA on the other hand should be severely reprimanded and instructed to keep her prophetic readings to herself in the future. Plus, she should be held financially responsible for the cost inccured by this nonscence.
Until our institutions refute the claims of psychics and until we stop newspapers from publishing things like horoscopes, we’ll continue to have stories like this I’m afraid.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:43 am
“There was some secondary, circumstantial evidence of abuse, but IMO it was not enough to trigger this.”
As I understand it from the article, the “circumstantial evidence” consisted of the girl being autistic and exhibited behaviors that are not uncommon with autistic children (including some behavior which could be construed as “sexualized” — autistic children don’t always realize that grabbing one’s own genitals in public is not polite). They also “suspected” a bladder infection. So because the girl was autistic and they thought she might have a bladder infection (note: there was no diagnosis of a bladder infection), they decided that this was sufficient corroboration?
*shakes head* Looks like there’s some serious medical ignorance at that school too. I have to wonder whether or not the school nurse was consulted. He or she would have a professional obligation to know better, but then again, as Anonymous Coward pointed out all too vividly, nurses are not exempt from reaching ridiculous conclusions from physical evidence.
Child abuse is serious. And as a result, we tend to lose our perspective about it. If you have the slightest doubt in your mind about whether or not a child is safe at home, could you, in conscience, let the child go home? Well, yes, if you use logic and reason, but we get so emotional about children that it clouds our judgment. And then there are the cases where a kid really is being abused, and nobody notices any signs of it until one day the kid turns up dead….. It’s not a simple problem to solve. However, going all wacko about it and taking a psychics claim that a girl with the initial “V” was being abused as grounds to initiate an investigation….. That’s just ridiculous.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:53 am
off-topic…
“Should I vaccinate my baby?”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/family/06/19/ep.vaccines/index.html
read the caption below the first picture. lovely…
June 19th, 2008 at 10:58 am
This story is unbelievable. How respectable of a newspaper is the Toronto Sun? Are we sure this is the real story?
It could be that the school administrators were erring on the side of caution. If it had turned out (by coincidence, clearly) that the girl was, in fact, being abused, and the school had not reported the psychic’s so-called “evidence” to the child protection agency, the school could have landed in hot water. Maybe this school (or some of the people involved) had incidents in the past, where there was real evidence of abuse and failure to report, with subsequent consequences.
I think this illustrates societal hysteria regarding child abuse as much as it illustrates the parasitic nature of psychics. That hysteria has gotten so ingrained in us. I don’t have any kids of my own, but I do have nieces and nephews. And, even though I know on a rational level that child abuse and kidnappings have been hyped out of any decent proportion by the media and other groups, when I’m at the park with my preschool age niece and a sketchy-looking man starts talking to her, you can bet that irrational fear pops right up.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:10 am
@hale_bopp
I saw that story too. as a Mother there is nothing worse than feeling helpless when your child is sick. How anyone can stand by and DO NOTHING while their child suffers a prolonged and painful death is beyond me. Sometimes some people in this world makes me so sad.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I blogged about this two days ago (click my name and it will take you there), glad to see it here too!
On my blog, I’ve encouraged people (Ontario people, specifically) to contact the Simcoe County District School Board and express your outrage (if indeed you are as outraged as I am), and I’ve provided all the contact information one might need: mail, email, phone and fax. I’ve also included a copy of the letter I sent them.
So far, I’ve had a good response from some people over at Skepchick, but I urge everyone to step up to bat and work to expose this. Please, click my name and lets all take the Board to task. If this is allowed to get swept under the rug (which no doubt the Board will try), just imagine how many psychic-agnostics out there might be swayed by this. And one more thing, lets remember that this is a PUBLIC institution. Our tax dollars paid for this, and our tax dollars effectively endorse this.
Thanks Phil, for writing about this.
Regards,
Steve
June 19th, 2008 at 11:28 am
[…] “Diretor de Escola Confia em Psíquico, Causa Merda”: E logo ontem eu tava falando de uma cigana com uma bola de cristal… O assistente de um […]
June 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
The mother in this case is lucky the abuse charges were not leveled against her. Sadly, this has all happened before in the area of autism. What can you say about a field that is chock full of quacks, charlatans, bimbos (e.g., Jenny McCarthy), media hounds, and other unscrupulous people? In the early 1990’s there was a supposed “miracle breakthrough” for autism called facilitated communication (FC).
Unfortunately FC turned out to be bogus when it was discovered that all of the advanced language was coming from the facilitator, not the autistic person. There were allegations of sexual abuse leveled at the parents of many autistic children where the only evidence came from supposed communications from the child via FC. Parents were charged with child abuse and were arrested and tried. In almost all cases the allegations were made up by the facilitator.
http://www.srmhp.org/archives/facilitated-communication.html
June 19th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
They probably also believe everything they read in the Toronto Sun.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Hey BA? Do you have confirmation from any reputable sources? Both CityTV and the Toronto Sun are trash journalism.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I just got into an argument with my girlfriend about psychics (because of this article). She claims they’re “ok to use, because it’s just fun and a form of entertainment”. Grrr… I finally convinced her that even if these psychics really believe they have supernatural powers (to which I still fault them for telling mis-truths, by not doing proper fact checking), and even if you only use them for entertainment purposes - supporting them to lie to gullible people makes you morally reprehensible. It’s no better than betting on dog-fighting, or some other morally void form of ‘entertainment’. Supporting this kind of stuff is just disgusting.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
@Supreme Canuck
Does CityTV still have that corner cam thing? I used to love watching it when I lived in Ottawa.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
“This “seer” told the TA the little girl was being abused by a man between the ages of 23 and 26, so the TA told the teacher, and up the chain it went.”
It’s worse than that. The psychic told the TA that a girl whose name started with ‘V’ was being abused.
“the girl is equipped with a GPS unit that makes audio recordings as well”
Christ on a bike. I suppose it’s understandable given the autism, but still, what a world we live in.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Supreme-Canuck
Are these more to your liking:
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/index.html?subject=Colleen+Leduc&type=Person
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080618/psychic_abuse_080618/20080618?hub=CanadaAM
http://orilliapacket.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1078042
June 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I guess that the other thing that I find amazing is that it’s a kid with a name beginning with “V”. She’s the only one? How big is this school? Maybe the psychic was working the odds, albeit poorly, since he/she should have gone with “M” or “J”.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
The school officials reported the incident to Children’s Aid, the government agency overseeing child abuse.
In Canada, the law requires that teachers report suspected abuse to Children’s Aid. Failure to do so carries stiff penalties.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
bleah, I hit return … yes you noted it up there about the “reasonable” thing.
The problem is that when it comes to child abuse, people get unreasonable in a hurry. I’m willing to wager that the psychic thing didn’t come out until after it was reported. Unfortunately, once the wheels are set in motion, they are difficult to stop.
If an educator lets something slide because he feels that the suspicion is unreasonable, that educator may be liable if it turns out to be true. Ouch.
Children’s Aid is widely known in Canada for taking people’s children away due to false, weak accusations of abuse.
The US hasn’t cornered the market in draconian law just yet
June 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
OK, so these so-called psychics can hide behind the “entertainment” get-out clause - all I’ve got to say to that is, in what way can suggesting a child is being abused be classed as “entertainment”.
I’ve got a much better word for it: scaremongering.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
As a father of three children I am a little surprised at how quick everyone seems to be burning the school at the stake. Would you in the same position want to take a chance on the Childs welfare.
First… we probably don’t have the entire story. It is possible that like any information passed by word of mouth it got distorted and acted upon before it was clarified.
Two… I would want any allegations of abuse against my children regardless of the source to be investigated, more so if any of them were autistic.
Three … Lets remember what’s important here THE CHILD. Screw everything and everyone else the innocent MUST be protected.
Personally I would be grateful that the school acted in the way that it did. It would reassure me that if anything really did happen it would be dealt with.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
@ Doc…
You mean Speakers’ Corner? Nope…not anymore, as far as I can tell. Last time I walked by there at Queen & John 2 weeks ago they had it all boarded up.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Sean,
And what if this source (regardless of who) accused a parent (which would include you) of the abuse?
This story went public because of a psychic but was then cleared up. The accused was never identified (doesn’t exist) so no-one’s reputation was ruined. If anyone was named, I think you can guess what the public perception would be, even if it was proven there was abuse.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
@ Doc:
No clue. I try to avoid CityTV as best I can.
@ Dennis:
Yep, thanks.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Sean, I think we all agree that the child must be protected.
But lets all be clear about this: the child is being exploited. The psychic is using the poorly-understood and very public disease to manipulate people into believing that psychics have a genuine ability. Regardless of how well that plan turned out, this psychic is still the exploiter.
Some (I’m not suggesting you are) may counter that skeptics are being expolitative, using this scenario as a soapbox to expose psychics. I would counter that it was the psychic (who is still annoymous as far as I can tell) that launched the first salvo. This is all about the psychic and the school board.
In fact, it is exactly BECAUSE the child must be protected that I’m trying to get people to email the school board: If any psychic is able to convince people, even partially, that a student is being sexually abused purely on their say-so, then the floodgates open. Any baseless accusation would be taken seriously…..talk about a strange reversal of the witch-hunts!
June 19th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Ginger Yellow said:
> “the girl is equipped with a GPS unit that makes audio recordings as well”
> Christ on a bike. I suppose it’s understandable given the autism, but still, what a world we live in.
If you read the article, the reason the girl had the GPS and recorder was because the school had lost the girl several times before.
Sean said:
>First… we probably don’t have the entire story. It is possible that like any information passed by word of mouth it got distorted and acted upon before it was clarified.
What part was distorted? The part where the source of the accusation was a psychic reading? The part where the school officials took a psychic reading as a legitimate source and called CAS?
>Two… I would want any allegations of abuse against my children regardless of the source to be investigated, more so if any of them were autistic.
So if someone accused you of abusing your children, based purely upon a statement by a third party psychic who had never even met your children, and the state came and took your children from your home and filed criminal charges against you for abuse, all because you weren’t fortunate enough to have a full-time audio recorder with your children, you would be okay with that? How about opening a file on you with CAS (or CPS or whatever it is called in your area) about you as a “suspected child abuser”? How about anytime anyone asks for your personal history, someone mentions the time your children were removed from your home because of suspected child abuse? “It was never proven, but…”
Get Real! Actual indications of child abuse I would like to be investigated. Rumors from 3rd party psychics? HA!
> Three … Lets remember what’s important here THE CHILD. Screw everything and everyone else the innocent MUST be protected.
Yes, absolutely, the child MUST be protected from her mother all because some random stranger who never met the child said “Somebody who’s name begins with a “V” is being sexually abused.”
I say we need to protect these children from the psychic nonsense.
Regarding the reasonably justifiable basis for the claim, from the CAS worker
Score a small victory for rationality.
From Dr. Lindy Zaretsky, the Simcoe County District School Board’s superintendent in charge of special education programs,
So the school board doesn’t think a psychic report is grounds for filing. Then why did it happen in this case?
Regarding zero tolerance, from Peter Dudding, executive director of the Child Welfare League of Canada, an organization promoting the protection of vulnerable children:
So CAS, the school board, and an independent child protection organization all agree this is foolishness. That’s good to know.
Source:
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=599210
June 19th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Sean,
Your point three above confuses me. When you say ” Screw everything and everyone else the innocent MUST be protected. ” doesn’t this also apply to the innocent person who has been accused?
I remember the days of - better ten guilty men should go free than one innocent go to jail. Are people now actually advocating sending ten innocent people to prosecution in the hopes of finding one guilty?
June 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Between this, and the stupidity of the boy who just died while being ‘prayed over’ here in Oregon, I’m fuming mad.
I popped a letter in the mail off to the school board (Were half Canadian here) but if anyone has an address for the fraud.. er psychic, Id love to have it to write her a pointed letter too.
June 19th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
This doesn’t have all that much to do with psychics or autism. It is about charges of sex abuse. Having lived through the 1980s, I have to consider the entire thing a tempest in a teapot. A tempest, I’ll grant, but nothing compared to the storms of the good old days.
I’m not sure how many people remember the spate of child abuse cases in the 1980s, when so many American women had to go to work and leave their children in day care. The general anxiety about leaving one’s children in the care of strangers led to a series of child abuse cases across the country, with particularly serious cases in California, Washington and Massachusetts. An entire industry of child abuse specialists came forward to identify children who had been abused and children were interrogated ruthlessly. One nine year old girl in Wenatchee was tortured by her mother and experts, deprived of sleep and continuously questioned, for nearly a month before she cracked and agreed that she had been sexually abused. As the children were interviewed, the stories grew more lurid. The McMartin day care center in Los Angeles had secret underground tunnels. A clown had killed a rabbit in front of the class to enforce silence. Hundreds were accused. Lives were ruined. People spent years in jail based on outrageous accusations. Children were anally probed, right here on earth, no UFOs. Some supposed child abuse experts argued that this could tell if a child had been sodomized, even if the child denied it and there was no other physical evidence.
There were no psychics. There was no autism. There were just lots of so called child abuse experts who exploited the free floating anxiety about a major change in American society. If you think my account is too lurid, check out Satan’s Silence, an excellent book on the subject.
This case was just a faint echo. This girl was autistic. The accuser claimed a psychic as her source. The mother denounced the whole thing as a pile of bosh. Physical evidence was studied and accepted. Yes, psychics can be harmful if you take them seriously, but so can experts. When one considers how this sort of thing played out in the 1980s, I consider this a rather mild case.
June 19th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Considering what we pay educators in this country, is it at all surprising that some of the people who are attracted to that career have no friggin’ clue about how to use their noggins? If they did, they’d be doing something that pays — except for the few who truly consider the upbringing of our youth as a vocation.
June 19th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
I want to know who this alleged psychic is! Let’s bring this person into the bright light of publicity to explain themselves. I can sympathize with the teachers and administrators are concerned, from my experience with the responsibility involved in childcare. Even though the source was a psychic, the principal must weigh that with the possibility the accusations were true and the consequences of not reporting them. This put them in a very bad position.
But as I said, let’s bring the psychic out and question him/her. Maybe if we can prove the absurdity of his/her actions we can keep this from happening again.
June 19th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
QD said:
I’m with Randi, I think it was Randi, who said, Medium in neither rare nor well done.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
I don’t know what’s worse… A bunch of educators believing in psychics or a bunch of educators trying to teach creationism.
Well, at least this has some media attention.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Phil and others,
I’m a Canadian, specifically, an Ontarian, and, on top of that, I’m a teacher in the public system here. I can tell you that while the psychic’s report obviously does not represent ‘reasonable’ grounds for the suspicion of abuse, we’re running scared up here. As ‘Evolving Squid’ mentioned, we face some stiff penalties if there is any suspicion of abuse (the evidence that Phil alluded to that wasn’t strong) and we fail to report it. We can be sued and we will likely lose our jobs. The child’s welfare is deemed to be of the utmost importance (which I think we can all agree upon).
The psychic angle is likely being spun by the Toronto Sun, which, as others have noted, represents the lowest of low-brow trash journalism, because the Sun loves to take shots at teachers. The Toronto Sun is very conservative in a province where conservative often means, ‘I’m not a fan of teachers; they get their summers off and how much do they really contribute to society anyway?’ We pay them back by not reading their crappy, grade-five reading level newspaper (not to mention the sexism and racism that abound between its covers).
I think that it’s a little harsh to call for the heads of those involved, as the system calls for them to react the way they did, despite how ridiculous their reaction seems.
I’m sure that some will try to characterize this as me saying that we, as teachers in Ontario, have to follow up on any psychic’s claim now, but all I’m really saying is that the Sun has spun that angle, when, really, the abuse was likely reported as a result of those other ‘minor’ factors.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
“Others are simply con artists, and there is no punishment large enough for them.”
I hear people propose this sometimes and I wonder, are you suggesting we live under Caveat Venditor? In a Caveat Emptor market, the stupid get separated from their money. Are indy psychics any worse than the powerhouse corporate psychics (the mega churches)? Maybe they should just be taxed like cigarettes with the money going to state parks like with the lottery (the tax on people who can’t do math). Since they’re for entertainment purposes, there’s no fraud (so it’s like a gullibility/reality tax).
@Tom
“but then again, 25% of americans believe beyond any doubt that Jesus Christ will come back within their lifetimes”
They apparently didn’t read
Matthew 16:28
Matthew 24:34
Matthew 10:22-23
I Corinthians 7:29-31
I Corinthians 15:50-53
1 Peter 4:7
Hebrews 1:1-2
etc.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Like several others, I also first read the title as “Physics and Gullible People Cause Real Harm”.
I was envisaging some kind of ill-conceived experiment in Newtonian mechanics involving a skateboard and a large watermelon.
Just, you know, for instance…
June 20th, 2008 at 12:40 am
It was incredibly, incredibly poor judgment on the part of the fraudster…I mean ‘psychic’ to even consider making a comment regarding possible child abuse…especially to someone in the education system. And doubly stoopid since (as the ‘psychic’ knew) it was a Cold Reading.
It’s like walking into an airport and yelling “BOMB!” You can be sure they wouldn’t weasel out of penalties with a claim of ‘entertainment’ then.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Welcome to the fruits of liberalism: The Nanny State!
Speaking of gullible, could someone please define “hope and change” for me? I’m a little unclear on why anyone with an IQ over that of a common houseplant would vote for “hope and change” without knowing what they mean?
Hmm, let’s see, what political persuasion controls the schools? Lesssee, that would be liberals, wouldn’t it?
BA, are you sure you’re not a closet Conservative just contributing to the cause of making liberalism look as stupid as it is?
BTW, Liberals, how is that “hoping for peace in the Middle East” thing working out? And the “vote for Democrats for Congress to end the war” thingy? How’s that working out? Hmmmm?
Robert
June 20th, 2008 at 3:47 am
Sean seems to have a very odd view on what constitutes reasonable grounds for suspecting child abuse. What I was to accuse him of child abuse ? I have no grounds for doing so, but then having grounds for such suspicions is not something he seems to need. Would he still think that having the authorities act on unfounded accusations to be acceptable ?
June 20th, 2008 at 3:58 am
That is a very scary story.
It’s very worrying that anyone would take “evidence” from a psychic without any other corroborating evidence. If the whole thing had been started off by the child having bruises, and then a psychic got involved, that might not be quite so bad, but it would still be bad. Shades of the Salem Witch Trials…
It also reminds me of the cunning folk of the 17th century who saved their own skins by denouncing old ladies as witches. Similar things have been going on in India recently, where a village wizard type person denounced a “witch”, who was then horribly killed.
As a person who is both sceptical and open-minded, I would not entirely dismiss the possibility of precognition; however I am well aware that it is likely to be inaccurate, and (even if it does work) only to predict events extrapolated from the current state of affairs. So I would never ever use alleged precognition as the sole basis for a decision.
June 20th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Tom:
If one is a Christian in more than name only, they will, as a consequence, believe there is a possibility for Jesus Christ to return during their lifetimes. It’s about like a discussion on whether to remove some trees because there’s a possibility they could fall on a structure. No one knew for certain that the trees would fall on the building, only that the possibility existed.
The other Christian perspective is that we’ll stand before Him to give account for our lives whether we die before His return or not.
June 20th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Most likely the TA ran it up the chain without telling them how she came to the conclusion and the psychic stuff came out after the fact. The TA’s superiors should be reprimanded and the TA possibly given the boot, but at least properly educated on what “reasonable” is and how moronic using a psychic is.
June 20th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Check this link out. This is what I’d consider real harm since it involves the death of a child. I’d like to kick his (worthless scumbag) parents in the teeth.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_re_us/faith_healing_death
June 20th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Call in the law-talkin’ guys.
June 20th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I always find it odd when people, ie, liberals, who support euthanasia and eugenics find it reprehensible that everyone doesn’t want to receive ultra-modern scientific medical treatment, and just want their life to end naturally, and people, ie, liberals, believe in junk science like “homeopathy” and “osteopathy” or “holistic” medicine are whole-heartedly against “faith healing.”
Odd people, those liberals…
Robert
June 20th, 2008 at 11:55 am
[…] (_Psychics and gullible people do REAL harm_.) Long story short, it was proven without a doubt that the girl was not being molested–the psychic was full of crap (surprise!) The result of her “for entertainment purposes only” seering was to throw a family into upheaval and cost them a great deal of money and emotional distress. […]
June 20th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Robert said:
> I always find it odd when people, ie, liberals, who support euthanasia and eugenics find it reprehensible that everyone doesn’t want to receive ultra-modern scientific medical treatment, and just want their life to end naturally,
It’s one thing to want your life to end naturally, quite another to have a child die for lack of taking around of antibiotics or getting a catheter inserted. How “ultra-modern” do you think a catheter is?
> and people, ie, liberals, believe in junk science like “homeopathy” and “osteopathy” or “holistic” medicine are whole-heartedly against “faith healing.”
> Odd people, those liberals…
You know who else is odd? Conservatives, you know, those people that sleep with their family members and can’t count to 20 with their shoes on. [/sarcasm]
June 20th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
sirjonsnow said:
> Most likely the TA ran it up the chain without telling them how she came to the conclusion and the psychic stuff came out after the fact.
Did you not read the quotes I provided? By the time the mother was called in, they admins knew about the psychic stuff. That was the origination of the accusation. The only other “evidence” was behavior patterns consistent with behavior of other students in the group - autistic students of that age range.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I agree that psychics, gullible people, and other magical thinkers do real harm. So why do we let them have children? Why do we let them cast a vote? Why do we let them drive a car? Why do we let them buy a gun? Conservatives are magical thinkers, so I don’t care for their opinion. I’m interested in liberal views on these questions (contrary to the majority of the American idiocracy, I do not believe that “liberal” is a dirty word).
June 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
[…] story is making the rounds in the skeptics blogosphere. One prominent writer summarized it as follows: A woman has an autistic 11 year old daughter and cannot afford special […]
June 20th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
These people are parasites, one of these bottom dwellers surfaced just after my mother died and told my step father that my mother had spoken from beyond the grave and told her what decorations from the garden my step father should give her. No messages for me or anyone else in the family apparently.
What can’t they do something really useful to humanity like predict cancer, earthquakes, horse races, lottery numbers and who’s going to win the Super Bowl?
Sheesh.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Im not psychics but i forsee a lawsuit agaist this teacher and the school and this teacher geting fired and starting her own psychic hotline and the need for the lawmakers to change this law .You know this reminds me of the slaem witch trials when they wold let in “spectral eveidence” so all you would have to do to convict is act weard and claim the defended put a curse on you many were hanged as a result.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm
On a related note, I had corresponded for a time with the father of Adam ” The DreamHealer” - who was the subject of an episode of 24 Hrs.
For those of you not in the know, Adam’s schtick, is claiming the ability to use his “quantum” power” to heal people. He is a sell out in Canada.
I challenged him to undergo JREF’s million dollar prize, and cited the damage Adam’s influence does on the true believers who rely on him to cure them, and shun scientific medical treatments.
To make a long story short, my emails resulted in a summer-long debate with his father ( Frank ) over how damaging their business is to the followers.
His position was one of total denial. Big surprise.
Tim
June 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I was shocked by this story until I clicked through the link and saw that it all happened in Barrie.
Barrie, about an hour’s drive north of Toronto, is generally considered the main redneck backwater of southern Ontario.
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