Mar 24 2008
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MRO watches Spirit roam Mars
Emily has a fantastic animation showing views of the Mars rover Spirit as it roves over Gusev Crater. The images were taken by the HiRISE camera on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, and it’s a must-see.
She also has news that to feed the Mars Research Lab, NASA has to gut other Mars missions. This is bad news, and she has links to more info. Edited to add: within a minute of posting that, I received word that it’s worse than I thought: Spirit will have to be switched off for the Martian winter (it was scheduled to sit still but do atmospheric measurements), and Opportunity will have to be reigned in as well. NASA is in a very tight spot, but I can’t help but think that nickel-and-diming successful missions is a mistake.
UPDATE: Looks like a letter to NASA sent by JPL scientists last week has turned the tide: NASA won’t shut down the rovers. That’s fantastic! But I wonder where that money will come from now…
hopefully NASA will continue this mission… and that Spirit and Opportunity will survive this winter… but it seems that they are cutting back on everything.
I will miss those two brave rovers…
PS:
the animation is stunning… I was hoping to see some bright pixel moving around… but HiRISE is a stunning camera, not only that the rover is recognizable, but in some of those frames you can clearly see the tracks it makes on the surface.
Shame the cat is out of the bag - here in the UK we have spot the ball competitions for football (soccer), you could have had a cool spot the rover competition with some of the stills. Closest X wins your new book sort of thing.
Wait for it Phil…. I’m waiting for the “tin hat, Moon landing hoaxers” to come out and start on about, “If we can see the Rover on Mars, why can’t we image the Apollo landing sites?”
Do I think it would matter if they did image them? The tin hat crowd would simply state that the images were faked…
I am amazed that these tiny emissaries have held out over 3 or 4 years, especially when they were designed to last 90 days! Now, if only I could find a car manufacturer to design a car that exceeds its expectations here on earth…
It isn’t nickel-and-dimeing so much as MSL cost overruns are putting a lot of pressure on the Mars program funding. We are now seeing the consequences of that.
I wonder if the next Administration, to be voted in by years end, might help this situation, at least somewhat….
Am I correct in my belief that if Spirit is turned off, it’s over? Or does it have some sort of wake on command? I celebrate the accomplishments of the Mars rovers, and will miss having reports of their further exploits.
JBS
Here’s an interesting question… these two rovers have so far outperformed expectations and have endured for so long… how might NASA have altered its mission for these rovers if it knew how well they would perform and how long they would continue to run? Or would it not have made a difference?
Michael… I’m going to pretend you didn’t just give moon-hoaxers a reason to hijack this post. Grr…
jest, I’m not American, (Canada), but my understanding is none of the candidates are all that committed to the space program, with the exception of Hillary. But, it isn’t really the President that gets to make that decision anyway, but Congress. I guess alot depends on what happens with Iraq.
Every day that the MERs are still running takes money away from other Mars projects.
These are the rovers that were supposed to be operational for 90 days, right?
Of course they’re canning them! It’s an embarrassment to have such a success running round still. It’s makes every other project, ever, look bad in comparison.
Celtic, as if I needed to do that!
Okay, now that I’ve finished foaming.
4 M$ to fund the rovers for the rest of the year?
Aren’t they one of the most popular missions ever? FFS we have tiretracks on a celestial body! The first rover was named by the public (I don’t honestly know about Spirit and Opportunity).
What I’m trying to get at: isn’t this a sum that it should be possible to raise in a charity drive?
Won’t “Save the Rovers?” (”This is your Opportunity to raise our Spirit!”) be a negotiable campaign?
And a way to educate the public about just how big a failure the current funding policy for Nasa is? I still recall a post - prolly one the first I read - about how poor an idea the general public have of the cost of the space programme.
This could be a great chance for catching the public imagination.
It’s not a man on the moon, but FFS it’s CARS ON MARS! Get Mitsubishi to offer to match whatever the public donations.
How about it Phil? I know you have a book to finish, but …
Recently read that Iraq is costing about twelve thousand dollars a second.So if they had a four hour safety meeting (nobody moves, nobody gets hurt) over there, that would probably cover the two rovers winter maintenance programs. Just sayin…
Our man in NASA send us a couple of amazing pictures of Spirit in Mars, maybe not taken too from the MRO but from another top secret orbiter with ultra-super HiRISE cameras, as you can assume because the high detail :
http://lonjho.blogspot.com/2008/03/fotos-inditas-del-spirt-en-marte-la.html
So, as you can see, this is THE Final Evidence.
@ Lonjho
Been there, done that…
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/01/21/speaking-of-dumb-mars-claims/
@ Michael
Good point…
FWIW, the phrase is “reined in,” as in reining in a horse. “Reign” is what a king/queen/emperor does.
Fred
I believe both Spirit and Opportunity were named by school children, if memory serves me correct. I guess it’s a question of priorities for NASA. Let’s not forget, Phoenix is currently en-route, and there are several other missions preparing to go. The fact is, at some point, these Rovers would have to be shut down. I think we can consider ourselves fortunate that they have endured the Martian climate for so long. They have paved the way for future scientific endeavors, and kudos to the men and women that have brought us the stunning images and scientific data over the past years. I’m sure that scientists will be pouring over this data for years to come.
I seem to recall hearing a while back that if the Rovers were switched off, they could not be restarted. Reason being that as long as they remain on, the constant flow of electrical current generates some minimal level of heat. However, completely powering them down would cause the various electronic components to be fatally damaged by the extreme cold.
I don’t want to believe this ! Less money for science and enormous deficit for rebuilding and invading foreign lands ? Hmmm … does not seem bright to me. I’m worried. It started in the fall of 2005 when some of my co-workers at JPL had to leave (mostly administrative staff). Now it’s time to go for the science projects themselves. After all, if the government really does not have the money to operate the rovers, why don’t they sell them to a private company that can support them ? Alternatively they can set up an EBay auction for the rovers and the winner can operate and direct them and will be responsible for their maintenance costs ?
“I seem to recall hearing a while back that if the Rovers were switched off, they could not be restarted. Reason being that as long as they remain on, the constant flow of electrical current generates some minimal level of heat. However, completely powering them down would cause the various electronic components to be fatally damaged by the extreme cold.”
Actually, the rovers don’t have an “off switch” for fear that someone might accidentally bump it. But you’re right, they have to keep the computers warm enough to continue running. The scenario that is being considered is that spirit would be forced into hibernation (similar to what happened during the dust storm) rather than conducting its winter science campaign.
I was at the MER all hands meeting earlier today when this was announced to the team. More details here: http://martianchronicles.wordpress.com/2008/03/24/mars-budget-cuts/
Thanks for four great years of science and incredible vistas
of an alien world, Mars Rovers - now shut off.
We have to save enough money to pay for the Iraq War
for about half a day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23783721/?GT1=43001
I still don’t understand why they have to switch off the rovers to save money. Presumably most of the cost of the program went into getting them there. I didn’t realise they were still connected to the grid in the US by a very long extension cord.
Can’t a computer somewhere be set to “record” any data sent back by the rovers just like a vcr or is it that the vcr has to be unplugged or set to record another program too.
Apparently conflicting reports from Michael Griffith spokesman about whether financial cutbacks will involve suspension of operations or hibernation of one of the rovers.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/03/24/nasa.mars.rover/index.html
“I still don’t understand why they have to switch off the rovers to save money.”
Salaries (and overhead) of the operations team. If you want a Rover to do *anything* it takes planning and coordination between many people. Even if all you want it to do it stay motionless, pointing the Pancams at a spot on the horizon and take pictures, you still have to
- Manage power usage, monitor power generation, battery charge
- Power computers
- Power cameras
- Manage data in the limited file storage space onboard
- Coordinate downlinks through the orbiting relays (Odyssey, MRO)
- Power and point the HGA in the right direction for download (?)
- Upload commands
- Examine the images to see what is of interest, and plan what you’ll look at next.
The images from the Rovers aren’t good because cameras were just pointed at random and the images were analyzed later. The team plans what, where, and when to image based on analyzing previous images.
Anything that involves moving the PMA or running the MiniTES will become more and more complex, and if you ever want to drive the Rover you’ve just hugely increased the number of people involved. There are any number of steps that, if performed incorrectly during operations, can cripple the Rover permanently.
Continued science operation takes people, people cost money.
Shane said: “I still don’t understand why they have to switch off the rovers to save money. Presumably most of the cost of the program went into getting them there. I didn’t realise they were still connected to the grid in the US by a very long extension cord.”
Shane
I assume most of the scientists, engineers and technicians involved in running the Rover missions appreciate being paid.
Peter B takes it for the win with this:
“I assume most of the scientists, engineers and technicians involved in running the Rover missions appreciate being paid.”
You mean they don’t do it for love?
According to the CNN article referenced above looks like a few of the scientists may be layed off.
It appears that it is an all or nothing deal. There doesn’t appear to be a semi-autonomous mode of operation for data gathering. Unfortunately that kind of makes sense if the initial mission was only expected to last 90 days I suppose.
So much for unmanned space flight and robotic probes. You still need 300 people on the ground to operate the robot.
How much is $4 million out of the daily budget for the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts?
I see zookeeper beat me to that facetious comment… ;o)
Seeing the rover like that - well, if there were Man-sized Martians on Mars we would have seen them by now.
If only this were as simple as some of you are trying to make it by comparing Mars Rover funding to the Iraq war.
That said, I agree with the posters who think that a funding drive might be the answer. NASA cannot accept directed donations, but JPL (which isn’t a NASA center, per se, but a Federally Funded Research and Development Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFRDC)) should be able to be more creative in finding funding for the mission. Granted, this would set a crazy precedent, where NASA could then ask JPL to find funding for other missions it wants to continue. JPL likely has no interest in that approach.
BTW - The talk is that they’ll “hibernate” Spirit for the winter, and wake it up in the spring. It’s something they haven’t tried, but it should be feasible.
It might be possible to wake Spirit up in the spring, but there is little worse for complicated equipment than letting it sit. It may not be fully functional again. This is just one of many science related cut backs. The last minute cuts at Fermi lab have vertually assured that if “Higgs” is found, it will not be in the US.
It never seems to occure to the powers making anti-science decisions that leadership in science and technology is the true basis for our national security not limiting carry-on liguids to 3oz.
Given the people that operate the rovers, it would be neat so see the tasks delegated to non-JPL places. You know, have other scientists online from other nations “drive” them around to do science.
But I guess that won’t happen.
Given that winter on Mars is about twice as long as it is on Earth, am I right in that this means the rovers will hibernate for about six months or so? That’s a long time. I wouldn’t be surprised if during the hibernation period that one or both rovers break down.
Sad news that the rovers are being shut down to save an amount of money that is wasted in Iraq in a matter of minutes. Thanks for nothing Mr Bush.
This might be a silly question, but couldn’t NASA turn over control of older missions to a university? Another institution interesting in science? I mean, you give access to the rovers to MIT hackers and who knows what will happen. ^.-
LB,
Well, thanks for the kind words. Always ‘preciate the kind word of ’sport from the “Mericun people.
The worst part about this in my opinion is that here we have a wildly successful operational mission that we’ve already got a major investment in. We should be trying to soak every penny’s worth of the original cost by making the most out of this mission. 4 million dollars is peanuts in this context.
This is just a plain bad decision. It’s like buying a car, finding out that it runs great, gets great gas mileage and is extremely comfortable, but deciding that you want to trade it in the very next year regardless of those facts.
I just read the information about the budget cuts, and that is horrible news. The rovers have been an unbelievable success, and the amount of science coming from them is equally as amazing. I realize that NASA has a difficult job trying to allocate funds for all the various projects, but there has to be a way to keep the rover mission funded. There are far too many rich people in the U.S. that could supplement this project, for this mission to just die …
Sounds like someone at NASA needs to go “knock on some doors”.
“I mean, you give access to the rovers to MIT hackers and who knows what will happen.”
The rover will end up on top of the dome, I’m sure.
Outrageously ridiculous decision.
If they are not interested in using the Rovers, they can
at least transfer the command centrer to whoever wants to operate them. In case the US government wanted to save money they better start with the war budget!
Unless I’m much mistaken it musta cost at least a 100 times more to send those rovers there in the first place.
If there’s any science left to be pulled out of them it’s those 100 times more sensible to do with the equipment already there.
If there’s really nothing left to look at, drive over or drill into, then fine, shot them down. Or send them full speed over the edge into a ravine.
Seems to me that the Terrorists are winning.
I heard rumors that Viking 1, the last functioning part of the
major Viking mission of the 1970s, was deliberately shut down
in 1982 and made to look like a programming error to save a
few bucks. Viking 1 might have lasted to 1994 otherwise.
I wonder if NASA is going to have a similar “accident” with Spirit?
These are the same guys who killed Apollo, so what’s a couple
of robots on Mars?
I keep hoping private industry will solve things, but who knows?
That says a lot about the credbiity of any manned trip to Mars….
Speaking of NASA; just wanted to mention that Jim Lovell is 80 today. And speaking of funding (I think one hour of funding for our occupation in Iraq would pay for a year of Spirit and Opportunity) I sometimes daydream about what NASA could have done in the last 36 years if their funding had just continued at Apollo levels.
@Japhy: You’re absolutely right.
BTW, myself, I’ve dubbed the new airport horrors (yes the security madness) “Osama’s Triumph”. They’re really a monument to his victory on 9/11.
[…] The the whole scoop clicking here. This entry was posted on Tuesday, March 25th, 2008 at 3:58 am and is filed under le Chat Marchet. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. […]
Thanks Bush for this. The billions US is spending on the war could be funding several projects such like this. Anyways that’s a too bad new.
The rovers are just one of the signs - the economy is going to get a
lot worse and a lot more than just two robots on Mars are going to
be shut down.
Hope everyone stocked up on gold.
Thanks Dubya. What a nice legacy you have left us with.
If there were any justice in this world, he and Cheney and all their
cronies would be brought to trial for the crimes they have committed.
They’ve killed loads of people and now they have bumped off two
space explorers to boot.
[…] into a ‘90 day mission’ - to be turned off due to lack of money? Hang Tough Rover Team!!read more | digg […]
[…] into a ‘90 day mission’ - to be turned off due to lack of money? Hang Tough Rover Team!!read more […]
I cannot help but wonder how long it will be before we start seeing “Coke”, “Pepsi”, or “Dorito” ad’s on these missions?
[…] The hardest game in the world It’s hard to be NASA March 25, 2008 Over at the Bad Astronomy blog, Phil Plait mentions cuts to NASA’s Mars budget. Honestly, I’ve been pissed at […]
I really hated to hear this. The Mars rovers were such an extra bonus to NASA the day that the first rover hit it’s 91’st day on its mission, beyond the original 90.
I hope that NASA will find the funding to keep the rovers in action, and I hope to see a repaired Hubble Telescope soon!
I don’t think corporate sponsorship of scientific exploration is negative, it brings in money that would be elsewhere squandered and has the possibility of raising public consciousness. I’d much rather see, Mars Explorer V, sponsered by Coke, than not have a Mars explorer.
[…] To save money, NASA will switch off Mars Rover Spirit for the Winter. What a disgusting fate for so intrepid an explorer!! What if it won’t wake back up?? Please DIGG this - maybe we can pressure them to restore the $4 Million to JPL. After lasting 1490 days into a ‘90 day mission’ - to be turned off due to lack of money? Hang Tough Rover Team!!http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/03/24/mro-watches-spirit-roam-mars/ […]
Can`t they sell the mars rover to Google or something? Finding sponsoring should not be too hard.
[…] into a ‘90 day mission’ - to be turned off due to lack of money? Hang Tough Rover Team!!read more | digg […]
Maybe if we convince Bush that Mars has WMD’s he’ll allow the rover to continue “searching”
[…] is not use it because when I want to use it, there may be a chance that something has broken on it.read more | digg […]
Couldn’t/shouldn’t they turn control over to another group that would be interested in maintaining them and/or could answer some other questions? Is that not possible? Is there another group that would want to do that?
This is so wrong! If anybody who has any say in the matter reads this, please, please, please don’t shut down Spirit!
Why does money have to cause so many problems?
So…how many days of the Iraq war would fund these rovers until they finally die?
I was very sad to read this headline this morning. Sad day for Mars exploration….
Yea they do need to turn it off because the Martian Winter. I don’t think they are doing it to save costs. Interesting read I have read today by far.
NASA just changed it’s mind. It wont be turning of either rover anymore. I guess the public outcry was too much for them.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_sc/mars_rovers;_ylt=AuehwBmePeHyp.WfMnZc1kpxieAA
Seems to be some pretty strong support for taxes around here, but I have a question that I havent seen asked really. I find space exploration to be very interesting personally, but why does it have to come from a govt. ageny of some sort? Im not big on the nationalistic pride of being the first country to send someone to the moon so that isnt really a draw here. And new tech. is awesome, but would the things you are touting to be in existence only because NASA is around have been invented otherwise? My guess is someone would have come up with the microwave without taxing me to fund the research. I do recall the invention of some pretty cool stuff by private citizens before NASA came along to save us all. I dont want to seem like Im picking solely on NASA either. There are a lot of beuracracies I would eliminate if given my magic wand. But Im just curious if there is a good explanation as to why space exploration couldnt be privatized as opposed to govt. run.
Keep those rovers trucking!!!
Those rovers are so popular. Heck, you can play with little rovers at both Johnson Space Center and Kennedy Space Center. I’ve even played with them.
I recall when I was last at JSC in Houston I was with a group of Canadians who were mostly interested in Mars. (BTW, one of them even bought Phil’s book there because of my recommendation.)
Moving machinery on Mars is a great thing. Definitely makes it seem that we are *there* in some way.
Bush’s War is costing $7.4 Mil per Hour. That puts their apathy towards science in perspective.
4*10^6$ should be easy if NASA would make an global collection for it.
[…] libido driven, and in most cases geeky mob. Just look at the last 24 hours page and between false rumors about spaceship cancellation, to a clip with a kid who sneaks to a party disguised to a DJ, and a Rick Astely piece (for crying […]
Quoting the BA :
“UPDATE: Looks like a letter to NASA sent by JPL scientists last week has turned the tide: NASA won’t shut down the rovers. That’s fantastic! But I wonder where that money will come from now…”
Lets hope the money gets taken out from the colossal amounts wasted in the “war against an emotion”, the continued US occupation of Iraq and invlovement inIraq’s ongoing civil war and the support,arming and funding of Israel!
Sorry gernerals and neo-con loons -we can’t afford this BS foreign policy that ends up hurting us worse than our enemies or to fight yet another needless war - we’re spendbing the cash on good science instead!!
If only …
Sili (rather sensibly) said :
“It’s not a man on the moon, but FFS it’s CARS ON MARS! Get Mitsubishi to offer to match whatever the public donations.”
Read recently that the Lunar Rover that the last three or so Apollo missions took to our Moon was built by General Motors. Wonder if tehy’d be interested? Who built the MERs - anyone know? Just JPL or was there a company or two else involved?
As for the whole Govt run (eg. NASA-JPL ) vs private debate - well check out their respective track records :
Govt - or Public (ie by people, for people - least in theory!
) sector has put folks on the Moon, run numerous space-stations, and oodles of folsk in low-earth orbit, has a major stake in the ISS got space-probes on Mars, Titan, Saturn, Venus, Mercury and heading towards Pluto …
Private or corporate has .. hmmm… (stares around really closely, squints and looks harder) … aha .. Oook-aaay, they’ve had a couple of successfully sub-orbital launches & if we’re very generous we’ll count a handful of space tourists flown up on Govt run and operated spacecraft.
Y’know I think the Govt wins!
By well about fifty years ’siderin’ Corporates are still where Al Shepherd and Gus Grissom’s sub-orbital lobs in the ‘Mercury’ capsules were and not yet even up to Yuri Gagarin’s or John Glenn’s orbital flights .. Record speaks for itself.
[quote] “# Gareth on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:48 am
How much is $4 million out of the daily budget for the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts?
# Garethon 25 Mar 2008 at 2:49 am
I see zookeeper beat me to that facetious comment… ;o) ” [Unquote]
I wouldn’t class that comment as facetious actually mate. Its a very valid & legitimate point.
The US is burning money by occupying Iraq and waging a really dumb war technically fighting an emotion - terror - but supposedly against a whacko hiding in a cave, on dialysis, who could well be long since dead and whose worst recent action in response has been a nasty video merssage.
(As Madeline Albright the US’s last decent foreign affairs secretary put it : “Making warriors out of murderers.”)
When your in trouble digging a deep hole : first step - STOP digging!
Second step - try and find away out!
This is what the US needs to do in terms of its foreign policy. Stop the stupid war - declare it won or just over, whatever - but stop it. Get your troops the heck outta other nations & learn to leave ‘em out and let other places on the globe, well I dunno, just be other places on the globe say?
Then start climbing out -there’s alot of damage and alot of dirt but if you try -and if the US shows its learnt formthe experience we;ll that’s about tehbets you’llbe able to manage.
Or is it?? Wait .. Now you’re notburningmoney you’ve got it to oh, say return to the Moon, keep the Mars rovers going, fund goodwill projecst, spend onhealth, eductaion, welfare etc .. & y’all win!
Geez thats so simple you’d think even Bush Jr the Dunce Presiking of the US of A could perhaps get it right!
Couldn’t he? No …???
——————————
Please America come to your senses! The rest of the world is missing the old *good* you …
.. You know, the one that built Apollo and went to the Moon inpeacefor all of us, that won WWII (with a little help from the UK and Russia) that had such great people as Martin Luther King and Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan …
call OBla coward whose unable to hurt you
hurting t oitsown detrimentand thatof tehrestof tehplanet
Correction from above since I can’t edit :
————————————
When your in trouble digging a deep hole :
First step - STOP digging!
Second step - try and find a way out!
This is what the US needs to do in terms of its foreign policy :
Stop the stupid wars - declare them won or just over, whatever - but stop them. (In Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and wherever else you’re fighting teh war on “terror” but not the horror writers sort of terror - nah, just the political kind, y’know bombing folks who disagree with you politically .. Oh wait, hey .. that’s us too innit!? ;-). )
Get your troops the blazes outta other nations & learn to leave ‘em out and let other places on the globe, well I dunno, just *be* other places on the globe say? Without, like, wanting ‘full spectrum dominance’ or such fascist rubbish over them, say.
Then start ‘climbing out’ - sue diplomacy, apologise, make those responsible, well .. resposnible -say at proper war crimes trials, etc .. There’s a lot of damage done and a lot of dirt over you & it’ll take time to fix but if you try - and if the US shows its learnt from the experience well that’s about the best you’ll be able to manage. After a while the rest of the planet will put the whole Iraq, War of Terror thing down as another sad chapter in history, like Veitnam, like Bay-of-Pigs, like the Salem Witch Trials, the Crusades and so on ..
But wait ..! Now that you’re NOT burning money (&watsing lives and energy) you’ve got it to use on, oh, say returning to the Moon, keep the Mars rovers going, fund goodwill projects, spending on health, education, welfare, etc .. & we all win!
Geez thats so simple you’d think even Bush Jr the Dunce Presiking of the US of A could almost get it right!
______________________________
Please America come to your senses! The rest of the world is missing the old *good* you …
.. You know, the one that went to the Moon ‘in peace for all of us’, that won WWII (with a little help from the UK and Russia) that’s produced and been spoken through & about by such great people as Martin Luther King, Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan…
Nothing will be turn off. These cats can control it from home on a laptop.
they could surely fund the rovers from some sort of sponsorship system from the huge oil barrel prices
[…] Will the Martian rovers be shut down? Maybe not! Share it: about Nasa / Space News of the Week […]
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I personally don’t think it will be turned off. They can easily access it in any laptop at NASA.